Sword and the Tire-Pell

At the tire-pell all wall hangers shall meet their end.

It is my belief that when you buy a Battle Ready sword, you are buying a Tool of War, not a home decoration.

Table of Contents

Introduction

The swords reviewed here have been tested by striking them against the tire-pell you see pictured at least 2000 times. Most strikes were done with full force. No mercy was given to the blades nor the tire-pell. The strikes were from every direction and included strikes with the false edge (short edge) and the flat too. Many thrust were also executed particularly on blades intended for thrusting. The Valiant Armory War Sword failed in 20 blows. The manufacturer gave me what I think is a very lame excuse about intended use. The Generation 2 Irish Hand and a Half failed after a few hundred blows but that was replaced by the manufacturer. This goes to show that if people demand high standards they will eventually receive them. Be sure to understand that I am testing durability, not cutting ability, or any other qualities here.

You may wonder exactly how strong should a sword be and how strong were they historically. My research indicates that historically knights fought primarily from horseback. They charged into battle and used the momentum of the horse to attack their opponents. This method of fighting was made possible near the end of the 8th century because of the use of the stirrups and the high-back saddle. First they engaged with the lance and when that broke they drew their secondary weapon. The sword was a favorite among secondary weapons. This method of fighting gave Charlemagne the advantage to expand into what become know as East Frankia (Germany). This method of fighting was the predominate method that stayed with Europeans into the late Middle Ages and beyond. The Polish Hussars used it until the 17th century. A warhorse could reach speeds up to 30 mph. Imagine the stress placed on a sword when a knight swings at a target at that speed. One can also expect that his accuracy would decrease in these circumstances and it would be more likely that he would hit his foes armor. The swords needed to be very tough to withstand such tactics. This is not to say that swords never broke in battle, they did. One of the benefits of riding on a horse into battle is that you can carry numerous weapons on the horse. Knights often dismounted and fought on foot. So their swords needed to be suitable for fighting from horseback and on foot. In the face of this historical information, I do not think it is to ask too much of a sword to withstand 2,000 blows on a tire-pell.

I should add that I fight in the SCA and have related combat experience. I practice both heavy stick fighting and rapier. In stick fighting we use solid rattan unusually with a basket hilt for sword and shield. We also fight with rattans simulating longswords, greatswords, polearms, maces and axes. I believe that fighting in full armor with rattan simulates very closely what fighting would have been like historically. A few restrictions do apply for safety reason, but this is full contact, at full power with weapons weighing upwards of 3 lbs. Only hits hard enough to kill count. Experience shows that a shield is an excellent defensive tool. If you watch experienced fighters defending with a shield, you will notice that he will be able to block the vast majority of hits against themselves. The typical wood shield weighs 8 to 12 lbs and is half an inch thick. The shield covers the area between the neck and the knee. I would say that upwards of 90% of the strikes land on the shield. My fighting experience in the SCA further indicated that a sword must be very tough if it is to be taken into battle and used against men defending themselves with hard wooden shields. Here is a link to the SCA website: http://www.sca.org/

Reviews

The Hanwai Practical Knightly sword is a training blunt. It is a little on the light side at 2 lb 11 oz but still impacts with authority. It is probably an ideal leangth of 36.75 inches and a 30 inch blade for a single handed sword. The point of balance is a nice 3.75 below the hilt. The grip has a nice soft leather feel to it so the sword stays comfortably in your hand. The sword has passed the 2,000 hit test on the tire pell and is well suited to steel to steel training. I see no loosening on the hilt at all. I will add the the sword looks great with its tripple fullers. This sword is a great bargain at around $115. I have heard of numerous reports of this sword and other Hanwai swords breaking and exhibiting blade damage which brings into question "production consistency", it seems like I got lucky. I have put some dents into an 16 gage knee with this blunt sword.

The CAS Iberia Lionheart is the lightest sword in my collection. It is 2 lb 7oz with a total length of 34.25 inches and a 27.25 inch blade. It has a point of balance 3.25 inches below the hilt. The sword has passed the 2,000 hit test. The sword blade shows signs of fast dulling compared to other swords I own. I suspect it has not been tempered at all. At $112 it does not bother me too much. Consider it a disposable sword. The sword is too light in my opinion to be a battlefield sword. It would make an excellant dress-sword because of its lightness. It would be dependable in dealing with unarmored opponents. The sword has a very faint but wide fuller that consists of the whole flat of the blade between the edges. (edit: the sword broke at tang shortly after passing the 2,000 hit test)

I have reviewed the Full Tang Katana from United Cutlery. I have to say it was a great bargain. I already own the Traditional Katana from Generation 2 but I am reluctant to test the G2 katana because it has a traditional half-tang. The G2 Katana is made from carbon steel and has a 60/40 hardness.The Full Tang Katana is a single piece of 420 J2 stainless steel from tip to tip. It is 3/16 of an inch thick. I mention the G2 katana here because I use it for weight/balance comparison with the Full Tang Katana from United Cutlery.

First thing I have to say is when United Cutlery says full tang , they mean just that. The blade in its full thickness runs the entire length of the handle. The handle is two pieces of wood attached to the side of the blade. Three brass pins hold it in place. The thickness of the blade, I think, makes up for the softer 420 J2 stainless steel.

This sword is rock solid. I have beat the tire over 2,000 times with it. I have also practiced making proper cuts. I place a piece of cloth over the tire and strike pulling the sword in a drawing motion. If the cloth has a long slice in it, the strike was correctly executed. This sword is also a solid thruster, that easily punctures the sidewall of the tire with no folding. The blade is very thick for it length.

The Full Tang U.C. Katana is a little short for my taste. It is 36 inches. I find the 41 inches of my G2 Katana more comfortable. In handling, I find that Full Tang U.C. is not as pinpoint accurate as the G2 Katana were I can stop on a dime. I suspect this may be due to the shorter handle on the U.C. providing less leverage. Bottom line is that for $70 I bought a full tang sword that is tough and I can keep my $330 G2 Katana new while I learn to use this type of sword.The Full Tang Katan was bought through Bladematrix.com Weight: 2 lb 5 oz

The handle of the Valiant Armory Black Prince started to show a crack along the wood within a year. This did not seem to effect the sword performance other then I felt it opening a bit in my hand. This must just be an outer cover. I wrapped it tight with some clear packing tape and then wrapped that with masking tape because the handle was getting slippery in my sweaty hand. I have beat the tire-pell over 20,000 times since then, the sword performs great. I think this Sword has an ideal balance for speed in German style longsword fighting. It is fast and comfortable. Not so good in the thrust into the sidewall of the tire. The blade is too thin and the sword tends to wobble and sometimes fold when thrusting. Half-sword thrusting works very well for this sword.

The tapering gives the sword a unique speed and agility. Reversing direction is done very easily. I especially like using the short edge (false Edge) of this sword. This sword requires two hands to use. This is not because the sword is so heavy but because the tip of the blade has so little weight to it that you can not generate enough momentum with one hand to have a powerful effect. This is the sword I would chose to use in an unarmored longsword duel. I would not take this sword into battlefield situation.

The VA Black Prince finally broke after a year and a half of heavy use. I estimate that I have stuck it against the tire-pell at least 25,000 times. It broke in the tang, just under the crossguard. I think that sword served well and that I got my money's worth. I expect any tool to wear over time as you use it, just like any pair of shoes wears regardless of price. By luck I caught the actual moment of breakage on video. I have decided to replace this sword with the Generation 2 Lucerne Prince which has the same characteristics but promises to be even more sturdy.

The VaciaCraft Lionheart is a tank. It is as solid as the day I bought it. No loosening of the cross guard, handle or pummel at all. This is a winner for toughness. No noticeable vibration. I wish this line had not been discontinued. I think the sword is now sold by CAS Iberia. The sword is a bit heavy for a one handed sword. Weight: 3 lb 9 oz

The Valiant Armory Degasse is a tank as well. I have used this sword as a giant icepick to break up blocks of ice. The cross guard, handle and pommol are just as tight as the day I bought it. Only thing with this sword is if you strike near the tip you get a vibration that is more noticeable then any of the other swords. I suspect that this is more due to the tapering and a point of percussion that is set far back to give it speed and thrusting ability. It is just as solid as the Lionheart but much faster because of its tapering. It thrusts well into the sidewall of the tire. I do find the barrel shaped handle a little wide in my hand and the pinky finger is prone to slipping off if not careful. At its widest point the grip has a circumference of 4.75 inches.Weight: 4 lb 5 oz

The Generation 2 Irish Hand and Half failed after a few hundred blows on the Tire-Pell. The pin broke by the pommol.

I was contacted by Generation 2 who has asked me to to ship back the sword at no charge for replacement. Generation 2 has informed me that their policy is an unconditional one time replacement of any sword that breaks. The replacement will not be under warranty. That's more warranty then anyone else has offered.

They also recommended to me, to pick a replacement sword with a peened pommol rather then a threaded one like the Irish sword. They said the peened threads are stronger and that they are in the process of upgrading their whole line to peened pommols. I selected the BlackPrince and have reviewed it.

I would like to thank Mike at by-the-sword.com who contacted Generation 2 on my behalf. I have received excellent service on this issue on all my sword needs.

My Generation 2 Black Prince (old version) is a completely different then the Black Prince from Valiant Armory. The one from Generation 2 is a solid cutter with a very thick feel to it. It seems well suited to a medieval battlefield. The one from Valiant Armory has a triangle shaped blade that makes it lighting fast for duels. The Generation 2 Black Prince seems very sturdy with a stiff blade ready to thrust hard. The peening is plainly visible on the pommol. The crossguard, grip and pommol have a very tight fit. The sword is blade-heavy but does not feel awkward in one hand. It is well suited to cutting from the elevated position on horseback. The grip has a oval shape to it so it is easy to line up your edge to the target. The adjustable diagonal suspension scabbard is a nice bonus. It is the best scabbard I ever have seen come free with a sword.

I have been testing and practicing with the G2 Black Prince for many months. It is very solid. It hits the tire and bits nicely into it. No noticeable vibration and no loosening of the hilt. The blade is super-sharp and when striking at an angel across the surface of the tire I can skin the tire like a carrot. The blade chipped a little in a few places very early on, but I think that is an acceptable result of the blade being super-sharp. This blade thrusts very nicely into the sidewall of the tire with no folding.

This is a very good sword. It works best if you let gravity do most of the work for you. For example, start in a high guard, swing back and let the blade fall to make an undercut, and then end in a hanging guard. My tests show that with very minimal force you can make very powerful strikes. Take care not to overpower the sword or you will not be able to recover effectively.Weight: 4 lb 1 oz

A new version of the Generation 2 Black Prince is now available weighing 3 lbs 4 oz. This version is very similar to the Gen 2 Lucerne in its balance, weight and agility. The new Black Prince has very good recovery ability. This is accomplished by giving the blade a more pronounced taper making the sword an excellant thruster. I have made many thrusts into the sidewall of the tires. The blade on the new Black Prince is slightly longer and the handle is slightly shorter then the Lucerne. The handle of the new Black Prince is identical to the old version Black Prince, which is a little more thick and shorter then the handle on the Lucerne. I find that added thickness gives less vibration in one-handed use. I have preformed my 2,000 hit test with the new version of the Black Prince on my tire pell and the sword is as good as new. What impresses me even more then its strength is its agility.

The Windlass Classic Medieval surprised me more then any other. I did not expect this sword to hold as tough as it has. I thought the tang might be too thin but so far I am wrong. I did not like this sword so much until I started using it on the tire-pell. It is 3 lbs 3 oz and has a long blade so it easy to accelerate fast and hit hard. The cross guard was somewhat loose from the day I bought it. The leather grip is also a little loose around the tang but the sword has held together despite over 2000 blows on the pell so far. After extended use the slightly loose grip around the tang gets a little annoying. If not for this minor imperfection the sword would be perfect. I have used a hammer to tap the peening. It helped make it tighter. Forget about thrusting, this is a thin cutter and the blade will fold on you, but half-swording thrusts work well. The blade is sold unsharpened so I sharpened it with a $1 sharpening stone. It is not a tatami eater but it is ideal for breaking up people inside mail and padding. I have destroyed thin metal pipes with this sword. The edge damage was minimal. I hesitate to recommend this sword because of the tang looseness inside the slightly miss-sized handle, but it is not a bad sword. Weight: 3 lb 3 oz

The Valiant Armory War Sword is a failure. The tang broke after 20 blows. The most disappointing thing here is that this 3.8 lb blade heavy sword was designed for the sole purpose of bashing armor and shocking the person underneath it. I expected that this would be the last sword in my armory to break. I believe the reason for the break is because the tang was way too thin for a heavy blade like this. The presence of rust inside the handle on the tang was not a good thing either. This just goes to prove that you do not know what you have until you put it to the test on the tire-pell.

I have received word from Valiant Armory through by-the-sword.com that do not warrant swords for this kind of use. I can respect that but I have no use of display swords and I will not be buying any other swords from Valiant Armory.

The Generation 2 Lucerne Sword is an excellant addition to my collection. I have had it for some time now and I am so far pleased with its durability. The sword is a very light and quick thruster. It thrusts very smoothly into the sidewall of my tires. It is by far the best thruster in my collection. Its lightness makes recovering and changing direction very easy. This sword has passed the minimum 2,000 hits on the tire-pell. Given its light design, it does not hit the tire with the same authority as some my other swords. It requires more force to make a substantial impact. The reverse applies in thrusting. Its pointy and highly tapered point makes it possible to penetrate with less force. The blade, despite seeming thinner then the Valiant Armory Black Prince, folds less on the thrust.

The sword is light enough to be easily handled with one hand. However handling it and hitting with it are two different things. The sword really needs two hands to make any real impact because there is almost no weight near the tip. I have found that because of its overall thinness, the sword will vibrate if you strike one handed. Holding the sword with two hands brings that vibration under control so it is minimal. This sword does a nice job of combining lightness with durability.Click to see Weight: 3 lb 4 oz

Note: a new version of the Gen 2 Lucerne is now available weighing 3 lbs 2oz. I do not plan to purchased this version because I feel that the Lucerne is light enough at 3 lb 4 oz and handles well.

Conclusion

I do not think it is coincidence that some two-hand swords are failing and not any of the one-hand ones. When manufactures lengthen the grip on swords it seems that they forget to thicken the tang that runs inside the handle. It seems that the tang on many two-hand swords are made no thicker then one-hand sword tangs; yet twice the torque is placed on the grip when the second hand is put on it. Manufactures need to be made aware that swordsmen demand better quality.

It seems that you have a better chance of getting a decent one-hand sword then a two-hand one. When you are shopping for a two-hand sword, I recommend that you be very explicit is stating that you want an extra thick tang if you plan to put the sword to good use. Show them a link to my website and tell them that this is what you plan to do. Tell them you need a sword that will measure up.

The Tire

I chose tires as test and practice targets because I feel that they best simulate leather and mail armor. The tire will also give and sway, especially the way I have constructed the pell. I think this simulates very well a man standing in light armor.

Tire-pell practice with sharp swords should not be done by anyone who is not daring enough to ski, heaven forbid you hit a tree or break your leg. It should not be done by anyone who is not daring enough to ride a motorcycle, despite helmets, if you get in an accident you are in big trouble. I once had a rear wheel lock up on me for no reason at all and then release at 50 mph. I was lucky, not a scratch. It should not be done by someone who would not do rock climbing or scuba diving. Ok, so I have established that tire practice with sharp swords is an extreme activity for extreme people or rather a war like person.

Now let me tell you what its like from my own real experience. After over thousands of blows I can tell you blades do not shatter after a few hits, despite what some over conservative swordsmiths have said. Pieces of the tire do not fly up in the air on impact. I do wear glasses just in case. If you want to chip off a piece of the tire you must make a slicing scrape along the surface and it won't go far. The tire will absorb a hard blow like and airbag absorbs a falling stuntman, slowly. It will not spring back up and throw the blade in your face (it is not inflated, it has no rim). Do not expect to make a deep cut into the tire even with the sharpest sword. I found the tire to be very resilient to cutting. If I needed to put together a quick, cheep suit of armor, I would use the tread area of tires. Even pushing straight down into the tread area with my most pointed sword and using all my weight, I am not able to penetrate the tread. The steel-belting will surpass any mail suit ever made.

I am just as cautious when practicing on the tire-pell as I am in free standing drills. I am most careful about swinging this sharp sword around at speed and hitting myself, especially in the head. I am also cautious of the sword not flying out of my hand. These two factors are there regardless of whether the tire is or is not.

This is my experience. I am not telling anyone to go do what I do, but a good sword will not fall apart on a tire. The sword will naturally wear over time just like a cheap or expensive pair of shoes does. If your shoe heals fall off in the first week or month, you know you got a faulty pair. Likewise if your sword breaks apart on the tire in the first week or month, you bought a bum sword.

I would like to add that once a person starts training on a semi-hard object like a tire the whole dynamics of his skills will change for the better. A swordsman must respond just as fluidly regardless of, if he hits or misses the tire. The hands must become use to the impact. A swordsman must train himself to hit both hard and accurately. If your edge is not aligned properly the sword will let you know immediately. These skills can only be developed by hitting a semi-hard target like a tire.

Pell training will only get your toe wet if you want to become a swordsman. To develop further you must put aside your sharp swords and use wasters and blunts in actual combat against trained people. You can not become a good swordsman on your own. You need the experience an guidance of people who have already been down that path. The cheapest way to train is within the SCA which is a not-for-profit organization. Medieval fighting is a true martial art. You should expect to dedicate at least 10 years of weekly and bi-weekly training if you want to learn to fight well with the sword. I recommend you look at my training webpage for a glimpse of what is involved in sword training. Sword training.

Safety

If you decide to try a tire-pell, please be conscious of safety. Regardless of steel alloy or heat-treatment, swords can fail, sometimes in small ways, i.e. tangs or grips, and sometimes catastrophically, i.e. flying shards of blade. Protect yourself. Eyes, hands, body. A helm would provided head and eye protection. Perhaps a full-face motorcycle helmet would work. Armor up. Be aware of your surroundings People or pets might not be hit by flying steel, but an errant backswing does a lot of damage.

Links to interesting topics and sites related to swords:

You should try to learn how these weapons where originally used and practice the technics. This will make the subject more interesting because without this you are merely using the sword as a club. This is not very efficient use of such weapons and you will get bored fast and soon put the sword up on a wall somewhere as a decoration. This is a horrible fate for a sword.

My favorite books so far for understanding the proper swordsmanship are the following:

I use the following website to help me find the best price: http://www.fetchbook.info/

You would enter the title there and the site will search the internet for the best price on that book available.

Original Manuals

Below you will find links to some of the original fighting manual where we get our current knowledge of swordsmanship. These are hard to understand because they are in their original language but you should be familiar with the original arthurs and know what the illustrations look like.

Click here to see copies of original fighting manuals

Click here to see more original manuals

Realistic Sparring Weapons This sight is based in Hong Kong and offers safe sparring weapons. The sight contains many videos, reviews and other useful information. It is worth the effort to look at.

Mail Armor

I bought a suit of mail armor for the purpose of experiencing what it is like to fight in it. The suit weighs a total of 40 lbs including the head piece. The rings are stainless steal and butted. Mail was traditionally worn with a gambeson (padded suit) underneath, particularly in the late medieval period. I have not been able to get an accurate date regarding when the padding became standard with mail. Some references state that mail was in use from the 5 nth century B.C. and it has been suggested that padding was not standard until the 12 th century A.D. For now I will use the mail without padding until I decide to get some.

I have spent some time practicing on the tire-pell in armor. As you would expect I got tired and even more importantly very thirsty much quicker then normal. Imagine fighting in the hot sun. I am in good physical condition. I do heavy squats, dead lifts and benches every week plus weekly fencing. My conclusion is that 40 lbs is the most a suit of armor should weigh. A suit closer to 20 lbs would make you a much quicker and effective warrior. One might consider shortening the sleeves and length to lighten the suit up. For practicality, sake you have to go with stainless steel today otherwise you would have to keep the suit drenched in oil to prevent rust. I have no idea how you would get all the oil off the rings so you can wear it when you want. I wore the suit to a Halloween party where I walked around, socialized and ate in it. It became very tiring even to just sitting down in it. 40 lbs will wear you down.

I do not plan on trimming the suit, rather at some point I will buy a lighter one. I did have to trim the sleeve cuffs a bit because they were so wide that I was getting hit in the face when I swung my sword. It took 3 hours to trim the sleeves a bit. I used the trim left over to do some tests. First, no sword or knife could slash it. Second, I took my dagger and struck myself on the forearm with the edge while wearing the mail. No cut of course, but the impact did hurt a bit. A sword strike could easily break the bone. So far I anticipated these two things. Now for some thrusting tests. I took the left over pieces from my sleeve cuffs and put them over a cardboard box. I used my degesse sword (the extra pointy one). Thrusting into the cardboard was a easy with no mail. Now I placed a six inch by six inch piece of mail over the cardboard box. The results where somewhat surprising to me. Given that the rings were butted, I expected them to easily break open. That was not the case. The did stretch out of place a bit, but did not fail on the first strike. The sword tip did penetrate the cardboard box a bit but not like before. My conclusion is that despite mail not being full proof (especially cheep mail), it can be the difference between a flesh wound and a fatal thrust. I do anticipate that this suit will require upkeep the more I wear it and practice in it because the rings are butted rather then riveted. The butted rings will stretch over time from the shear weight of the suit. I expect the rings to start to stretch open a bit around the shoulders. I will have to close them with a pliar. It is a big help to wear a thick belt tight around your waist. It relieves the weight from the shoulders.

For those interested, I ordered my mail suit from ebay, $180 with shipping. The seller is called Panther Trading. I saw a cheaper one on there too for about $100. The deference is in the size of the rings. Smaller is better. There are many retailers that do business through ebay. If you want one with riveted rings, you can find one on on ebay.com for $850.

Getting Stronger

You should work out in a gym with weights if you truly wish to be an effective swordsman. A sword requires skill to use, but that skill should also be backed up with strength. Most of the 15th century fightbooks contain sections on grappling and wrestling at the sword. You will not need the strength for wielding the sword but rather for the grappling and wrestling at the sword. In such close combat situations strength is a very important factor. In this day an age all competitive athletes work out with weights. You can never achieve your true potential in any sport unless you are as strong as you can be. In the early Olympics of the 20th century those athletes relied only on practicing their sport to gain the necessary strength. By the end of the 20th century all champion athletes in just about every sport spend time in the gym lifting weights to gain the maximum amount of strength they can. This is well beyond the strength that they normally get from just practicing their sport. Weight-lifting is a proven method that works if you want to be at your best in any sport. Here is a link with some sample workouts specifically designed to increase strength and power. Here is a link with some sample workouts specifically designed to increase strength and power.

If you wish to ask me any questions you may contact me at: tsafa@aol.com

Sword Training

Pistol and Rifle Training

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"With 2000 years of examples behind us, we have no excuse when fighting, for not fighting well."

T. E. Lawrence